Saturday, June 30, 2012

Dear AA: How Do I Hate You, Let Me Count the Ways




































I just stumbled out of an AA meeting in tears. Why was I there in the first place? Because my NP asked me to go, and I would do anything she asked me to do, even if it was jump off a building. Unfortunately, she won't ask me to jump off a building.

I'm trying, I really am, but i juat hate AA, I hate AA, I hate AA, I hate AA. Do you get the impression that I hate AA? Good.

What, you might ask, do I hate about AA? It might be simpler to ask me what I like about AA.

NOTHING!!!

Just take today's meeting as an example. I showed up all showered and shaved and nicely dressed. And there were all these aging Bikers, people in tee-shirts, tank tops and shorts. Waterville definitely needs a better class of alcoholic.

Everyone was all happy, milling about, waving, socializing, saying hi, shaking hands, making small talk, smiling. . . being happy. I just found a chair in the farthest corner pressed my hands between my knees, turned my face down and did my best to bite back the tears that were already starting to come.

It was just like being back in elementary school.

I hated elementary school.

The meeting got off to a start and as has happened more than once or twice before at these affairs I couldn't hear or understand a damn thing the main speaker was sayng. Mumble mumble mumble. Fortunately or unfortunately, he soon passed it off to a guy who knew how to speak to a room.

I have to say "unfortunately" because the first ten minutes of an AA meeting are always the same. You always get the Commercial Message about How Great AA is and how all you have to do is follow the Twelve Steps. That would be (barely) tolerable. But the writers of the Dogma (and it is Dogma, no matter how you slice it -- AA is a CULT, folks, pure and simple) had to go one step further and dump all over people for whom AA doesn't work. Every meeting I go to, I have to listen to what a sad, worthless failure of a person I am because AA just simply Isn't Working for me.

Well, from there they recite the Twelve Steps and here is the heaviest dose of AA hypocrisy on the meeting's menu, because if you ask any one of them they will tell you, "It's not about God, it's not about God," but dang it all, it's RIGHT THERE in the Twelve Steps and it BLOODY WELL IS ABOUT GOD. Anyone who tells you otherwise is giving you a snow job.

God is everywhere in AA and the meetings are even structured like church meetings.

I do not believe in God. And if I ever came face to face with that low-down SOB I would first punch him on the nose and then strangle him, not just for what he's done to me, but for what he's done, or allowed to be done to so many innocent people over so many millennia. So much pain, all in the name of a bloody evil god who obviously hates us all.

And to you, CD, my NP, whom I think the world of, even you said to me, "God doesn't make crap."

Well, yeah he does. I'll just say "George Bush" and stop right there.

Anyway. Back to the meeting.

Around this time, a woman that I actually know, used to work with, and have had some issues with in the past, walked in, late. There were no chairs. I gave her mine, and from a close side room pulled out another and sat at the farthest edge of the room. The preliminaries over, the man running the meeting took over, and once again it was mumble mumble mumble. There were words and the litany of responses but when you can't understand what's being said you can't be expected to join in on their cultlike behaviour. I caught S_____'s eye and gestured at my ear; she shook her head.

I was so frustrated. I thought, It's just plain rude to waste people's time like this. After several minutes had passed, I got up and slipped into the next room. There were windows looking out out onto the street, and across to the hospital where I'd spent the last week.

And suddenly I was sobbing. I went and buried myself in the farthest corner of the room where I hoped that I couldn't be heard in the meeting. There was laughter and applause from the next room, and I thought, That's another Universe in there, that's not something I can ever be a part of.

Eventually, I calmed down to the point where I could go quickly out the back way, There's no sneaking out of one of these meetings, or I would have snuck.

My favorite AA story is one that I heard at one of the small AA meetings held at 4 East this last time. The guy running it was one of the Biker AA types. He mentioned that he had three sponsors when he started with the group. And oh, by the way -- they're all Stone Dead now. So AA really doesn't work so well for a lot of people, does it?

I want a solution as much as anyone. But why is everyone married to AA as the only solution? Isn't there anything else out there? Something with a little less Jim Jones, a little less Elementary School and a lot less Jesus? It's just like what I was trying to say to that snaggle-toothed bag of bones Romper Room OT teacher before she officiously "corrected" me: we're not all cut out of the same cookie mold. If it works for you, I'm HAPPY for you. But stop insisting that it's the only hope for me. 'Cuz I do need hope, I sure do. But it's got to come from somewhere else.

-- Freder.

97 comments:

  1. I hear ya, to be honest I don't have a drinking problem I just had a problem while drinking. I drink about 3-4 times a year, and got into a fight with a guy with a martini in my hand. I won the fight, I go to jail. I sit in these things thinking "Well, I'll quit drinking just not to turn out like you guys."

    I understand it works for some, and that's great, but it's not a blanket treatment. Court mandated AA is really a joke, and being forced to socialize with these people (you can't ignore them forever, unfortunately) makes me resent the whole process.

    I wont be giving a sponsor my home phone or cell phone number. It's Anonymous, I don't even want you saying "Hello" to me in public. It's OK that they have a problem, but I can't relate to anything said in there. They speak of alcohol like I would speak of cigarettes.

    More power to the people it helps, but IMO you're just trading one addiction for another -- in this case AA.

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    1. I hear you loud and clear on this one. i have been at AA recovery for 1372 days consecutive. the kinda day I had in life and in the rooms was enough to make me NOT drink. I dont know but I hate AA most days cuz I think I know better and to be honest I am angry fearful self loathing no self esteem misfit who drank at 24yrsold cuz i wanted a life and to stop the anxiety attacks. Needless to say 23 years later I am so called so and now on my 4th sponsor id love to can. Its tough:the AA way or the highway. I tend to believe ppl are just born messed up so let me do my thing which is slow death. I cant drink and never should of but honestly life was always a mess for me. I have some money no legal charges on me and i dont frequent bars and drink. Of course its a loose cult and it trades one addiction for another. Im gonna stick around and watch "me" get pummeled again by AA. I wish all of you well. this 3rd AA year has sucked!

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  2. I am not an alcoholic, but was married to one. When he was begining his recovery, I went to several AA meetings as well as CODA meetings.

    AA IS a God-based program. I am too rational to believe in God (or his friends, the "higher powers"). To me AA is just another variety of religion - dogmatic, ritualistic, faith-based organization, insisting on the "powerlessness" of its members against addiction. This very simplistic mindset works for some, but it fails more than it saves. Still, it does save some, so I suppose it is worth a shot for those seeking help.

    What I find really irksome, trite and silly are the new navel-gazing AA bloggers - the "Rah-rah, I am so glad I am sober today and my life is a long series of t-shirt slogans" kind of blogger. While they might inspire a few people to try to get sober, mostly they just degrade themselves, often revealing that they are still hopelessly insecure, anxious wild-cannons.

    AA does not make you wise and wonderful - for some it helps them get sober. There are other ways, paths to greater self-awareness, wisdom, and temperance. I know I would not be happy to wake up every morning and have to feel that any day I could slip up, fall back into addiction. The pervasive idea that once you are addict, you are always an addict, is just not universally true. Shouldn't people be striving for a self that is not a drink away from failure, from destruction?

    A program based on a God, and personal powerlessness, a precarious daily balance, and a life-long need for that same program...it really seems to fall short of what we should want for addicts - for anyone - doesn't it?

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  3. The AA big book will solve all Life's Problems: What a Hoax

    Bullshit! AA and the AA book is solving the problem of alcoholism by giving long term sobriety to alcoholics at a 2 - 3% success rate. All the other boozers go back to drinking. An honest alcoholic in AA who is in the 2 to 3% of those who have long term sobriety will maybe admit to that fact. To quote the big book "Lets look at the record".

    The two most common characteristics you will find in an Alcoholic in AA are 1) Extremism and 2) Insanity. When I listen to these people in an AA meeting I think to myself, "God these alkies make al-Qaeda look like moderates". They are so hardcore about their beliefs and ideas, and everybody outside of AA is "an Earth Person". Now to AA's neurosis, psychosis, and all together fucked up shit. Wow, I didn't know people could get this crazy. Damn, I didn't know people could get this screwed up and still be alive. Its like they have been mauled, or mauled someone else, shot some body or shot themselves, and lived through it all. No wonder they drink. Jesus Christ you are going to need something to get you through life if your that messed up.

    To sum up, I will quote their silly little book again. "If you want what we have..." This one is really laughable. Who on earth would want what an alcoholic has. Would someone want to be so crazy, so confused, so misguided and messed up as an AA alcoholic who has not had a drink in a while. Its like if you went to a meeting with suffering cancer patients and one of them got up and said "If you want the hellish cancer I have". No body in their right mind wants that.

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    1. I love that one, "if you want what we have." I got the living shit beat out of me by a cult member, under the "bullshit guise" of "constructive criticism." That's the biggest oxymorn of an abuser that I've ever heard! You can't tear another person apart and call it 'constructive.' Lots of luck to those people walking around with medallion's around their necks, talking like the programmed automaton's out of that old movie: Stepford Wives. If that's what you want, all that I have to offer you is something that I made up out of Allison in Wonderland: "A very happy un-drunk day, to you, to you, a very happy church basement day, and toodle loo.' (ha)

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  4. Thanks to all three of the people who posted comments. I'm always grateful when folks stop by this blog for any reason. I have to wonder, if it concerned itself with anything other than alcoholism, would AA even be tolerated in our culture? Certainly many if not most of the non-alcoholics who routinely point to AA as the answer would never normally support such a cultlike organization.

    For my part, in the four months that have passed since I wrote this post, I have given up AA completely, and I am doing fine in life. By not making addiction the be-all and end-all of my existence, the way AA forces its members to do, my addiction is much easier to manage. That -- and they finally found what appears to be the right combination of drugs to manage my depression.

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  5. Hi
    treatment for depression is a big part of the puzzle for many people addicted to alcohol and drugs.
    aa helped me stop drinking. In hindight having the support of the fellowship while my brain recovered from active addiction was of value. But now i am sober over four years and not drinking is not hard anymore.
    i have been looking around at how sick folks are and planning on dumping aa. But i have met a lot of nice people along the way that are not nazis. I am in so cal however and there are many different meetings.
    but the parroted dogma gets old and there is much more to life than talking about not ddrinking. Good luck on your journey. I hope you find the healing that is right for you.

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  6. I dig this page.

    I could rail on, but what would that proove?

    One thing I've come to conclude about our species...

    While giving high praise to thier value for "TRUTH", many will drop kick it in a heartbeat if it runs contrary to thier already-made-up, closed mind. What they REALLY crave is being viewed as RIGHT. Moreover, few can engage in honest confrontation without anger- rather, they'd FAR prefer to be surrounded by peer-pressure reinforced agreement. Try SAYING that at a meeting, or- I believe in the believable. If you eschew organized religion in deference to a self chosen, researched philosophy (in my case, Stoicism and Pantheism), you'll be throwing pearls before swine.

    I was asked to leave a candle light meeting at "The Canyon Club" in Laguna Beach, CA. I stepped out into the cold rain and looked to the heavens with a smile. They acted as though my views were being expressed by someone drunk. I have NEVER capitulated to group-think. It has won me enemies. The fact is, some people are NEVER going to like or love you. Consider the source. Many people deserve each other. Hew to your own internal code,work to help where you can, and never hurt an innocent person.

    Thank you for reading!

    Marc
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=795412

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  7. P.S.Freder-

    I arrived at the AA is a Cult conclusion too. The difference is, I had the temerity to state it in several different meetings, places, cities. Same angry reaction. Many of these people are- just one level deep, arrogant H8'rs. It takes mere intelligent articulation to prove: NOTHING UNIFIES MEDIOCRE MINDS QUICKER OR MORE EFECTIVELY THAN A COMMON ENEMY. Cowardice is common, bravery rare- thus valuable. When you have and manifest it- nutters go full-on apoplectic.

    I say everything I have to say, first with my actions, then my spoken and written word. If that doesn't cut through, my musicianship (see link above) expresses me as best I can. Deaf ears are what they are, whether you, me or the fencepost exist or not. Truth rings true.

    UNSUI = Zen, for "Truth Seeker". :) Marc

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    1. So true!! It is such a drop in human expectations and time consuming (let me count the cracks on the ceiling) to sit in these non-intelligent,self seeking approval for a life with no direct signs of ownership for own's behavior!!!

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    2. AA doesn't force you to do anything you don't want to do.

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    3. Wrong. Thousands are forced to attend AA meetings.

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    4. Thousands are forced to attend aa meetings, not BY aa. AA doesn't force you to do anything you don't want to do. Your probation officer, the judge, your treatment provider... they may require you. That is not the fault of AA.

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  8. each time i go to an AA meeting my desire to drink escalates and my hatred for the morons in the program escalates more.....

    the program, i am certain, has killed more weak minds than it has helped. period.

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  9. AA is full of idiots who prey on young people who are struggling. They use and abuse them. I've seen it happen at many AA meetings. There is no help there. They talk about drinking and it wants me to drink more. I think "I'm not as bad as that person." LOL Go figure. I think it's just a cult. They all got out and have one after the meetings.

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    1. Keep coming back.........................

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  11. not trying to bash aa, but i feel like the program is making me bat shit crazy. I feel like in the back of my head if i dont "get it" ill never have a good life, period, since everyone in aa would agree with that. well shit then, i am out of luck, because from the moment i walked in there i knew there was no way in hell this thing was going to do anything for me.

    plus in aa no one will say simply what aa is all about. thats why I agree with you here, it is a god program, period. a "high power" is o.k., as long as that higher power is a "he" (as we understood him). Im really dying because being indecisive in general is no good for me, and I cant decide if im an alcoholic, the word has never felt right, at all. its not obvious given my history. what is obvious is something is messed up. im supposed to believe that how messed up i was before i ever took a drink is a sign of alcoholism? seriously? and base my whole life etc. around that assumption? i mean ive been trying to do that, but its a little difficult. you cant see alcoholism- a disease, like you can see cancer- a disease, with a microscope. it is a name, a concept whose definition is not clearly given in aa. it doesnt make any sense, and i must be incapable of being honest with myself, but honestly it doesnt make sense. its not a disease. it can cause problems with some people, it interacts with different peoples bodies differently. is that a disease? or is it just acting differently for different people. i feel too scared to even talk to anyone in aa they scare the hell out of me, and to say any of this to anyone in aa, would obviously result in accusations of denial and resentments, that i just want to get drunk etc. (i never even think about drinking... really, not hard at all to quit since day one) well... Alright this is a pointless rant anyways im sure its all wrong. I feel like god hates me everytime i go to aa, like growing up youth groups. probably the worst feeling ever. anyways reading this did help me out a lot, with venting for whatver its worth. helps counteract that feeling as i sit in a meeting and resist the feeling that my brain must be rotten.

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    1. AA works for some people, and to them I say, "If it works for YOU, that's great -- but it doesn't work for me and I'm out of here." However, if you think you're drinking too much, you probably are. Alcoholism is a disease in the sense that it's an influence that a lot of people can't control, and it destroys your body, takes over your life, and can kill you. It was an eye-opening thing for me when I discovered that musician Gerry Rafferty died of liver failure due to his alcoholism.

      For ME, the only thing that worked was re-discovering the things that made me HAPPY -- and even that is a day-by-day thing.

      You have to do what works for you. AA is NOT the "magic bullet" that non-alcoholics seem to think that it is. For some of us, it's just another thing to make us feel worse.

      Best of luck to you.

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    2. Evidence suggests that AA works better for people who are religious. For everybody else, there is no evidence whatsoever that AA is more effective than quitting without a 12-step program.
      There is no one "right" way to recover from alcohol addiction, as there is not only one way of having a drinking problem.

      AA don't have the monopoly on truth as to who is or isn't an alcoholic, how they should feel about it and how they should fight their addiction. They're faith-based, not science-based. If you're not religious, I see no point signing up in a cult.

      AA is effective for some (and it's great for them) but there is no evidence that it's more effective than other strategies.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16856072?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

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  12. AA is bullshit, and so is atheism.

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  13. I completely agree with the author. Are you in Waterville, Maine by any chance. AA sucks big time, especially in the snooty town I am in. Everyone sits there all grim. And the boring droning monologues that go on in these monotone voices wow, so much more fun than when i was drinking..not.
    I had to chair a meeting and was so nervous, and not one person in that room gave me a break. They all sat there with stone faces staring at me as I bumbled along. ASSHOLES>
    My sponsor actually called me a WHORE today (i havent had sex in 6 years) then said 'oh i was only kidding) she is a sick controlling bitch. Then i confronted her at the meeting and she DENIED it.
    oh and the happy dappy meetings. i can so relate. feel like i am in middle school. sounds like i am in the middle of a henhouse, everyone chriping and laffing so merrily, and i am sitting there feeling like an outcast. its so untrue that people wil reach out to you. i have tried and tried to make this aa thing work. i have been in the community three years and they are such a tightly bound clique that i have not gotten one damn number. no one cares about helping anyone else. and you are right, i'm sure the aa propagandists will tell me its ALL MY FAULT that i have a negataive attitude. well guess what if the people in aa ever helped,me instead of ignoring me i wouldnt have a fucking bad attitude.

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    1. I hear you all. The feeling like am I in some delusional state because this AA "I finally got a sponsor and worked the steps and everything is gift and I'm so grateful to AA" What? I am really, really, yes an alcoholic. I have done a lot in recovery. 4 world class rehabs (and AA people- there was a little more to it than a $40k Big Book. Like I was 25 year old girl that was at deaths door from secretively drinking a gal a day of rodka. The 30 days where good to detox fully. Anyway, sober 10 years, relapsed 2 years ago. It was super bad. Detox, ER, rehab and about 1,000 AA meetings. I've tried the program. All steps, service.. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

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    2. Oh and now I'm finally sober for good 6 months. Feel great. Don't want to drink. Abstinence for life- I have to, others may not and that sounds awesome too. Now that I've come to believe that I'm only going to get drunk if I drink, my sponsors sponsor is worried I'm going to die because I'm not willing to do ANOTHER 4th step. Steps don't do shit for me. That stuff I get with a therapist. The group support can be wonderful in the beginning, but all these nice people do want something in return- buy in, believe, give slogan filled "shares" and repeat tomorrow. I'm so sick of it.

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    3. That's great that you have six months. I am coming up on 8 months and have not done the steps with my (former) sponsor. What makes me sick is I told her all of these personal things about me, and now that I know her, I find out she is a mean gossip. Funny thing is I never liked her. but, I ignored me initial feelings, thinking oh she has 17 years, its probably not true she's a beeyotch. Well trust our intuition. I found that oug.
      Steps ..yeah..be careful..i almost shared my fifth with one of the sickest ones in the bunch. Im going thru the steps the bob and charly ? tapes on xa speakers. you dont need a sponsor to do the steps. You do need a sharing partner for the fifth tho. You can use anyone for that you trust, does not have to be an aa person. in the early days there was no such thing as sponsors. I'll probably use my husband, he never listens anyways. well maybe not he can use stuff against me lol. yeah, take a drink and you will die. so dramatic. i mean i'm sure its happened and i dont want to try it. so sick of these aa maroons!

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    4. Congrats to you as well? Sober is good. I did the back to basics program last year. It was a good experience. The best part was that I did all the steps in a row and felt like I accomplished something... Until I slipped again drank for 4 days, detox... Then I had to start all over again. I've also tried all the anti drinking drugs-Antabuse naltrexone campral topamax. I went to a medical/nutritional rehab, had DNA testing, IV supplements, no sugar, etc.. But really I was stuck between wanting to drink and not wanting the inevitable awfulness. That lifted around 30 days this time. I know a shit ton about alcoholism, but still don't know why or how it shifted to sanity. I also know a lot about sobriety-10 years of neutral bliss. So I have this mtg wed w/ sponsors sponsor. The grand matriarch of "the family". She's definitely caring and has good intentions, but speaks endless slogans and God God God If she asks me what I think, I'm gonna tell her the truth and deal. Btw she's a total gossip too. That's really sucky about AA. They have all these other suggestions written on the wall- how about "Don't talk shit about people". I'll post back if anything interesting happens. Take care.

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    5. Hope things go well with your sponsors sponsor. Just remember this. One thing I've learned is...if they gossip about peopel TO you.they will also gossip about you. I have learned this the hard way.
      I think I might ask for topamax. The urge to drink has been kind of strong lately. I think it's mostly due to my living situation. And I have major depression.
      Dont feel bad about the relapses. At least you're sober now. I have been in and out of AA since 1988 but the important thing is not giving up. I probably have 15 years sober but not in all one clunki so it doesnt ''count''. But you know what..It counts to me because I could have been dead if I spent those years drinking instead.
      I am so burnt out with this small town AA. Gossip and not one woman has ever reached out to me. In 3 years. Fuck them. At least the back to basics is the real AA and not some 'exclusive' clique!
      I am taking a break from meetings until I move out of this town. Which hopefully wil be soon. About the Back to Basics meetings...I did that too...I think that is the absolute best way to do the steps. Like they did in the old days before AA got all diluted by all this rehab bullshit, chanting, and rituals. In fact I am going to do that next month. The only thing was I got a really bad ''sharing'' partner last time. She was constantly talking about how busy she was, and kept cancelling on me to do the fifth step. If she is so fucking busy, why be a sharing partner..dumb beeyotch. If that happens again next time I am not going to put up with it and just ask to be put with someone else. Hope things go well Wed. !

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    6. Freder,
      Sorry I did not mean to threadjack. I just got carried away with my venting about the AA BS!
      Loveyour blog!

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    7. No worries. Venting is good for the soul. I'm happy that others are able to find some use in my ramblings.

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    8. Someone above said they told a gossip about their situation for their 5th step. I know the 5th step says to tell another person, but I would tell my dog instead because he is better than most of the people I know....and I would find that acceptable. Sometimes you have to bend the rules slightly and interpret things in a slightly different way. Over the years people have become very selfish, back stabbing and liars. My dog however, loves and cares about me and keeps my secrets :)

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    9. 5th Step... Big Book page 74...

      Those of us belonging to a religious
      denomination which requires confession MUST, and of
      course, will want to go to the properly appointed au­thority whose duty it is to receive it.

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  14. I am not an AA Guru. I am not an AA Protege. I am not anything but a Sober Alcoholic. It has been a Privilege to listen and read all of your insights. Honestly I am on the fence so I looked up on Google about hating AA. But after reading all of your comments, a QUESTION occurred: With whom would I choose to spend time with? These complaining, paranoid, anti-social immature Malcontents who want to bitch and moan and be negative and hateful about sponsors and people who are not perfect and doing their personal best???? OR to meet with the very Kind people who have given me Rides! for the last year for no pay (since i cannot drive now), and they do it without asking for Money or Bitching about their life or anything else. Hmm.. Vitriolic Animosity people on this Blog Versus Sober people who get me to Doctor appts, AA Meetings, Choir practice, Kids' Gymnastics and Boy Scouts, Kids' Doctor appts, Kids Violin reheasals, Pharmacy, Grocery store, EVERYTHING WITHOUT COMPLAINING ONE GOD DAMN BIT!!!!!!!!. . . They never complain. Ever, and they will continue to Drive my ass around because I have a disease that gets me Arrested. Tell me . . .which would you choose? I would prefer to be with people who are paying it forward, and since the last 1-1/2 year that I have lived in NH, I have about 50 phone numbers from AA of people who drive me at a moment's notice without one angry or irritable comment. Not one, and they love me and will do anything for me and my children because they understand and they care about me. Hell---If you live near me I am looking for Rides for myself Daily and my Three Children. Will you do that on a daily basis without pay and without bitching and moaning???? AA people have my Back Big Time. Tell me, you complaining Malcontended self-centered Whiners. Would you be here for me as much as they have? Give me your phone number and give me rides for the next year. They NEVER complain as much as you have done on this Blog.

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    1. Hey "I am not an AA Guru"

      I'm not an AA guru either but I have been to an AA meeting or two. You said you would rather not spend your time with complainers. However, about 75% of the people in AA complain about their problems and their issues. Sort of like you have already started complaining about the fact that you have been arrested and cant drive yourself to a meeting.

      So, if you go to AA meetings negative complainers are exactly who you are going to be spending time with. For the rest of the day you will get to spend time with your own complaining, paranoid, anti-social immature self. You just wont be complaining about AA's bullshit....Yet.

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    2. To this anonymous "not AA guru" poster: I think if you read and digest the original post and then the comments that follow, you will see that our line all the time has been, "If it works for YOU, then go for it." But it's not good or even healthy for everyone -- and the only one "hating" on this page is YOU. Seriously, were you drinking when you wrote that post? I kind of recognize the signs.

      People need hope, and AA just simply isn't right for a lot of us. And it creates more problems and resentment when people treat us like there's something wrong with US because AA is not all it's cracked up to be. We are made to feel as if AA's failures are OUR fault -- and you know what? That's just simply Not True.

      But, if it's REALLY working for you, then go to it. Just stop writing Hate crap about the others who have posted here, because it will get you deleted and banned in nothing flat, and that's a promise. I do not tolerate trolls on this site.

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  15. All right Anonymous, and yes, Freder. I see what you mean. Seriously. I did go overboard (D'ya think???) My apologies. At least here is an Open forum for what works for some and what works for others, and AA is not for everyone. I am seeking out what works best for me, which is why I Googled "Hate AA" in the first place, and clicked on this discussion, which was enlightening. Then I became perplexed and defensive (D'ya think??) I recognize that. I wanted to see what other people who are not in the program are saying about it. In the Beginning (1930's), it was just a bunch of Guys and Women trying to help each other with a serious problem of addiction. Sometimes the program and suggestions of today's AA do seem Cookie Cutter. I try to keep an open mind (unlike the tone my former edgy comments, for which I now apologize!!). Since I just moved to a new state, I have found friendly and helpful people there, whom I needed when I just got here from 3,000 miles from home. Forgive the rant. I found it a fascinating discussion, if you would allow me to say that. . Honestly, my apologies for venting. Be well, and thank you for writing here.

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    1. Thank YOU! All viewpoints are welcome here. One of my very strongest supporters is deeply into AA, and it works for her, and for that I am truly happy. Others have to find their own solutions and it is NOT easy. For me, what it requires is to stop living my life the way other people want me to live it and to start living the life that I want. That's harder than it sounds, and it's an ongoing battle. Thanks for lending your voice to the conversation.

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    2. I thought you're not supposed to engage in public controversy?

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  16. AA has made me utterly confused, and lose hope.. These people believe even if you "do not drink," this notion of the disease will "manifest and you will go crazy." You are supposed to live your life, not centre ur life around addiction and dramatics! How do you get out of this thing when u are here long enough?? It is mind coercion at its finest, and has almost destroyed any worth I have left... What to do?

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    1. I've almost gone through all the steps with a sponsor and I feel worse about myself then when I first joined 2 months ago. I can't even share any of these feeling in a meeting or even my sponsor because the finger will be pointed at me that I'm at fault and it's something I'm doing wrong, when I've actually been doing the program honestly and following every direction. Now I know why the failure rate is so high. IfI come back 10 years from now it'll be the same people sitting in a circle saying the same things over and over while new people just keep coming and going.

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  17. Try SMART Recovery you can read a bit about it here http://www.smartrecovery.org/ A non god secular rational approach that usesa REBT/CBT approach to change.

    Or SOS or WFS or Lifeline, all can be googled.

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  18. Well I'm definitely an alky. Live sober now But I've never wanted to drink more than after an leaving an A.A. meeting though. And no I don't even have a problem with all the god stuff that's in the program - it's the people that drove me out. It seemed more like a social club with cliques and I could not even get any help as everyone so busy socialising that a new person like me who is half dead goes completely unnoticed. I've seen other newcomers just come and go week after week in need of help -not receiving any and never returning - while the core group long member are too busy hosting their A.A. "potlucks" and just socialising amongst themselves. The least helpful and uncaring people I've ever known - almost as if they are brainwashed. Well I guess it's our fault as we are supposed to "reach out for help". Anyways, if you are a suffering alcoholic in the GTA, a word of advice - do not go to Back to Basics in RH.

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  19. I hate AA. I'm in IOP because I did have a serious drinking problem, and the court (I haven't had my court date yet) would have forced me to, I"m sure. They made me go to AA and get a sponsor. She wants me to call her everyday and do the 90 in 90. I'll play along for now because I have no choice. But I do not need AA to keep me sober. The consequences of my drinking have scared the hell out of me, and turning me into some sort of crazy person that I am not. I will not drink again. And I do not need AA to tell me constantly that I am a dry drunk or that I will fail if I don't follow their program. That is not a life. I prefer to live happy, knowing I conquered this on my own, and my life is turning into something wonderful already. I am quite happy. I actually wake up everyday with a smile on my face, embracing this beautiful life. And I do believe in God. I refuse to live in fear. I refuse to constantly think I am doing something wrong. My common sense tells me that trying to be a better person, helping others, and doing what I believe is morally good, is better than anything AA can offer me. I would have given AA a chance to have a support system of former drunks, but I cannot deal with constantly being told I am not progressing and will drink again unless I follow their rules religously.

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    1. This post really hits the nail on the head. It is exactly how I feel. My "sponsor" would always tell me I'm failing at the program because I'm not going to meetings. Well guess what ? I'm not drinking or using drugs. I guess we are not so powerless as they Say! Hearing this made me feel so much better about my choice to leave AA. Thank you!

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  20. Sober for 14 months. My one year I was snubbed by so many in my home group. I have been outspoken about a few old timers that continue to run the show their way and say spiteful things in meetings. Yes I believe AA is cult related. I have said over and over I don't want what these people have. I spent my first year doing so much service work, giving rides, H&I meetings, baking thousand's of cookies and more rides to only hear these assholes keep saying you have to do service work when in fact they don't do shit but run their mouths. I am sick of hearing I almost lost my condo in downtown due to my drinking, flubtart you didn't lose it so shut the flub up. No matter how the slice it AA is religious. I feel like it is a branch of the Salvation Army without the uniforms. I made the decision tonight to leave AA as it has caused me more stress than my PTSD mind can handle. AA is for some and it does work for some but it is making me want to drink even though I don't crave a drink. If someone would ever ask me if they should go to AA I would be the first to say give it a try but be open in mind.

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    1. OMG yes it feels like a branch of the salvation army also aa is a cult it's founder was a member of the free masons and also one of the Rockefellers who was an illuminati nwo it's all a parayamid sceame started along time ago by the elites

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  21. Wow. Such a lot of hatred here.

    I have now been sober for 21 years. It took me two DUI convictions and 4 inpatient rehabs, too. I know that there are 13 Steppers in AA, as well as a lot of "bleeding deacons" who think the place will crumble without their micromanaging. There are also thieves, gossips, and general all-around azzhats. But that's okay... When I can't hear in a meeting, I MOVE to somewhere that I CAN! I remember arriving late and having to sit with what I call "Paper People", those who are court-ordered or attending a program--- Guess what? Most of them don't want to be there either and are too busy checking their emails, texting, playing games, or running in and out for a smoke. How can you expect to hear anything? I have had issues with the "God" concept, too, but I can say that SOMETHING took away my desire to drink and drug long enough for me to get busy with a sponsor and work on those pesky 12 Steps! After three years of playing around, I actually DID them. It worked for me. This is no game, friends! Unless you are CONVINCED that you can NOT have "just one" or that "this time it'll be different!", you will surely drink again. That's what REAL alcoholics, NOT heavy drinkers, DO! I'm sorry that some of you hate AA. I went through that stage, too--- the "Why do I have to come to these stupid meetings and listen to these stupid old people?" Then, miraculously it seemed, I made FRIENDS with some of them, and I even MARRIED one! Things haven't always been a bed of roses, but I can safely say that my life is better because of AA and its members. Sure, there are plenty of buttheads, but they are everywhere, sadly. Here is another very important thought for all of you haters---try to see the SIMILARITIES rather the DIFFERENCES between you and the next person. Move where you can best hear and see the chairman, etc. Those people you can't stand? They just might have something important to say.

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    1. A good try but not fooled anymore

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    2. AA is a religious cult: orange-papers.org - all thoroughly documented and evidence supported. AA IS a religious cult.

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  22. AA is for loons. It promotes s sense of dependency without any personal responsibilities. It destroys relationships and promotes loneliness that can only be filled by another AA member. If not a cult...close as I'll ever wish to experience.

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    1. Exactly am sitting outside of a room waiting for the person inside he needs a ride yeah I've been doing this for over a year yes it's destroying my feelings for this person it's a brainwashing cult or as I like to think of it as a bar with all the bs except no alcohol now it's doughnuts ciggs and coffee while the women entice the men into the hopeless thoughts can't stand this group of self loathing ego self centered selfish poor me people and there is only one God not a God of our understanding

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  23. I have spent the last 13 yrs of my life listening to these unhappy self centered pricks,the penny has dropped Ive got bored,theyre driving me insane,everytime I go and share I feel sick,this is my soul saying get out get out,thank you God for showing me...

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    1. Yes the one and only real true God has spoken to you their higher power bs God is bs that's why you felt like you had to get out because it's a sick cult yeah I like how they have their meditation meetings filled with candles and in sense burnings relaxing for an hour to caltic music give me a break how selfish is that

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  24. I spent 11 years in AA.....then I asked for my misery back. At a lot of meetings you hear, "do 30 meetings in 30 days, after that if you decide AA isn't for you your misery will be cheerfully refunded." After 11 years I was so miserable I just wanted to die, and it kept getting worse!! I finally had a drink and yes, the first few months weren't too good.....then I went back to drinking occasionally, I haven't had a drink in months, because I don't want one. knowing I can have one anytime I want makes a huge difference! I am so much happier now.

    the other issue I have with AA is they keep harping on how you can't depend on anyone except yourself. well, the problem with that is we are human beings, and need other people! even though we are all fallible, and will disappoint someone at some time we still need each other. My husband joined AA when he was 18 yrs old, after 30 years in AA he didn't/doesn't know how to have a relationship!! just trying to have a conversation with him is like pulling teeth. AA has done him a grave disservice.

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  25. My brother is sober 20 years and can't have a relationship because of AA. He tries very hard and had meet a perfect partner, but he can't connect and is living his life 20 years ago, he has never moved on and is reminded 3-4 times a week how is life way 20 years ago. All this you are not in control and you can inly depend on yourself has deprived him of the life he should of had. He suffers from chronic depression and can not maintain connects with people who really care about him. He has no friends except a few people he chats to in the rooms. Even his GP is in AA, he has no life is now in his mid 50 and he could have had such a wonderful, fulfilling adult life. He is hard working and creative and totally dragged down by the addition of AA meetings and its rigour and dogma from the last century. AA is killing my brother

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  26. I have a cousin in AA who has turned into a complete asshole. His wife drinks, that's ok. His whole family drinks, that is not ok. I believe that alcoholism is a symptom of a much larger emotional issue which is dealt with by drinking, period. AA is a bunch of people who sit around and pray all the time to not pick up. They also want you to diminish your own personal worth by succumbing to some notion of powerlessness. No fucking thanks; I am the master of my own fate, thanks very much. Having said that, if when you do drink you take a dump on the dining room table and set the house on fire, you should recognize that you should not drink. But not drinking to make other people in AA feel righteous is not in my game plan.

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  27. There are Smart recovery meetings a half hour away in Augusta, ME. Maybe it's worth looking into? smartrecovery.org

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  28. glad i read this page.. i was in aa for many years.. i left after realizing i was feeling worse and worse with every mtg..

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    1. hear you ...in and out of meetings for 25 years, mostly out....but have not had a drink for 25 years...would not want to do it over agains..seems that I started feeling worse because I could not buy into the crap of all the wonderful people who cared so much about me until it was me who needed a ride or a favor or an ear...funny how that happens...found a few better friends outside AA then inside...that is how it's been for me..

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  29. Yesterday I became 5 years sober. For me it has been a great ride although difficult at times. From the beginning I assumed personal responsibility for my own spiritual development. I couldn't have done it without the support of some of the folks I met in aa. Some of which are still sober, most of which are not. For me it is a continuous program of action, so there is no such thing as finishing the 12 steps. I don't know why some get it and some do not but I do believe that it is my responsibility to be there for others as was done for me. Just like with liquor, there is a wide array of quality. I found too that this is the case for AA. In other words, some AA clubs are more solution oriented than others. I went to at least 4 different places before I felt at home. Now those places I used to shun and denounce, I intend to bring light to. God bless and goodnight

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    1. congrats and amazing story you have enlightened my little 3 3/4 years butt.

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  30. My doctor would not give me Vivitrol because he wanted me to join AA. FUCK BOB AND YOUR FAKE BIBLE!

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    1. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Method

      Next, tell your doctor to do some reading about naltrexone pharmacological extinction studies.

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  31. AA good place to pick up Chicks, they don't care if you married at AA, anything goes. I sent by Courts to get paper signed twice. Be careful what you "share" at AA, I convinced Cops, Narcs, snitches ,scammers, burglars and others listen to what people say so they can "set them up" and yes these people are in the Meetings. Someone brought up something on my record I never said and would never say at a meeting and tried to convince me I did share that in a Meeting. How did they know that unless they checked me out.
    Sex and Love Addicts Meetings started up at same time as AA now all the creeps on probation and parole that are sex offenders are there getting paper signed and it's weird when they are "in the house" a lot of people stopped going to AA when they are there. Many people with long term AA sobriety around here commit suicide. AA, no thanks.

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  32. I suppose you could call most things you choose to do as being part of a cult (without the religious part of if) if you go to the pub your choosing to be in the pub culture same as anything swimming, football, chess book clubs or whatever you choose to do. I don't reckon you'd engage in anything if you didn't think it was right for you.
    I read the book 'living sober' which I found to be a great beginners guide to stopping drinking and it explained to me in simple terms that I'm gonna have a lot of time on my hands which i was spending drinking.
    I've been using the AA meetings to fill in the hotspot drinking times like Friday nights and the weekends.
    I certainly don't like many of the people I've met at AA especially the old timers preaching to me that following the programme and the steps so I choose not to spend any time with them. After all if was was in the pub I wouldn't choose to make friend with people I didn't like or have any time for.
    I don't understand most of the terminology of the steps or have a sponsor - if I went down that route I know I would just loose interest and stop going.
    Last Christmas due to family being overseas I found I had no family to go to or mates houses as I knew they would be drinking heavily being Christmas day and hope everyone had a great day.
    AA laid on the full day self funded with Christmas dinner raffle disco and stuff so you just chose the bits you wanted to go to with no pressure - surely that's gotta be a good thing.
    In conclusion I know I'm not doing the steps and sponsor etc stuff properly but on the plus side i've not been drinking for 3 months, have met some new mates (not the preachy ones!) and have a bit of a social life again Cheers Allan UK

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  33. AA is an archaic moral movement that is gradually dying out as the USA becomes more secular and evidence-based approaches take hold in the rehabs. It will still be around for decades to come but much smaller in scale relative to the population.

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  34. AA doesn't make sense to me. How is sitting in a meeting, hearing people talk about what's going on in THEIR lives supposed to help ME. We all live different lives! Albeit we have problems with alcohol, what else? I know that this program can't be for everyone.

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  35. This has been an interesting read. So much anger, especially in the comments. AA is not for everyone. If you have found a way to stay sober that works for you, then by all means, share it. It seems that your time would be better focused on what works

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    1. I found this mantra to rid me to AA's brainwashing dogma which does not work and holds back my recovery:

      Bad Religion. Bad People. AA!

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  36. At many meeting I had suggested a happy topic like "Being happy for what we got back" and of course that was derailed after a somewhat pleasant meeting - into an Alca Nazi changing it to - I'm happy for things I didn't get anymore. Lawyers bills, hangovers, blackouts - on & on. We are not a glum lot. Look in the mirror. They're all living in a miserable past with no happy future ahead. Oh sorry I must be pissing on today.

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  37. Most alcoholics just lead bad lifestyles that leads to drinking getting out of control. You can spend an hour a day with a bunch of people and obsess over drinking or devote that hour to working out, fixing your diet, joining a group, or any number of other productive things that actually empower you. The idea that you're powerless over alcohol is just ridiculous. In reality, you're powerless over life. Most addicts are pretty OCD. If you redirect that substance abuse energy elsewhere, you'll find yourself succeeding in life and the desire to drink to excess will go away. In started to work the steps, but I'm the middle of doing so, went, "wait a second. Rather than focusing on all the stupid stuff, why don't I focus on improving myself?" For me anyway, AA just turned me into an overthinking basket case. But like others have said, if it works for you, that's just fine. But after regaining my health and devoting myself to interests other than triggers and balancing my life, I feel great and gasp, can even have a few glasses of wine every now and then without spiraling out of control.

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  38. I was in AA for five years. It is elitist and cliquish and filled with crazy people. Not really different from my drinking buddies actually, but without booze to make things even worse. But AA is not for everyone and I too grew weary of being blamed for the fact that my program was 'bad'. When I do good or good things happen, it's "God working for you", but if the exact opposite happens, it's either my fault somehow or "where God wants you to be right now". And the "mean girl" cliques have left a bad taste in my mouth...the people with long-term sobriety picking on each other to share and you are basically listening to the same shit over and over from the same people over and over. It's been over a year since I last attended a meeting and I have no real regrets.

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  39. Take a look at this. http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-About-Addiction-Recovery/dp/0671755307

    I didn't fit in 12 steps more than 30 years ago. We are basically the sum of our habits , mental , social , emotional , and physical. Destructive drinking or drugging, eating disordering can be one of these habits and perhaps the easier to do according to the sum of rest of the other kinds of habits. The twelve steps covers some of that ,but goes too religious and is too fear based(irrational).
    I have drank moderately ,or less ,for more than those 30 years and the terrible eating disorder I was in in my teens is nothing. You don't need to go become some kind of parrot in a twelve a step program.

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  40. AA is so outdated, sexist, and based on the Oxford group - a right winged neo Nazi group from England. Dr Bob and Bill W. were crooks - and Bill W. sexually exploited innocent women in the program. The Big Book is so outdated. Omg - the last meeting I attended I about jumped out of my skin when they read "To the Wives". (which implies that its partly the Womans fault) LOLOLOL. I was in the cult for almost 12 years. Relapsed and tried to go back. OHHHHH the shame. Finger pointing. Gossip. And I suddenly realized that the ones I knew from the first year were unemployed or underemployed, robots, and in constant fear. Quoting slogans like zombies. It's taken me 2 years to deprogram and I am still reeling from the memories of being hit on by scumbags, rambling drunkalogs and the badly written outdated literature. It got me sober - but after a year or two I wish I had moved on. I am finding sobriety in some really great private therapy and a spiritual group that I love. Good luck to all of you with your sobriety. AA is NOT THE ONLY WAY. And yes very low recovery rate if you look at the stats. Its just the most commercialized and money making program out there. Check out Smart Recovery. Also the Orange Papers. Don't feel guilty. AA is like an old church that is living in the dark ages. GET OUT if it makes you feel worse.

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  41. The message that seems to be mostly conveyed (sifting through all the bashing parts) is "It didn't work for me". What about "it" specifically "did not work" (meaning did not keep you clean and sober)? My own beginning story was that "it" didn't work for me, cause I chose not to do what it says to do... then when I was using again, simply blamed "it". The slogan "works if you work it, doesn't work itself" comes to mind. All of the other "ways" that are mentioned here are the same way, including "Smart Recovery" - they work if you work them. AA never says they are "the only way". If you all have found other true solutions to your substance abuse problems, then great! That is really the only thing that matters isn't it? I just find it interesting that there seems to be such a need to degrade simply another program and many find works just fine, including me.

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  42. I think alcoholism is a psychological disease (or maybe I mean condition?), something like ptsd. You know, like somewhere along the line your mind just gets stick in this loop. Drinking used to be fun and consequence free. Now it's not but I can't get over the urge to do it anyway. I have been going to aa meetings for about a year. I don't think they're a cult, just kinda off a bit. I imagine mason's meetings with the secret knocks and handshakes. It's all just a little too much for grown people. I mean that whole God is a doorknob thing cracks me up. Plus I think there is a way too much reverence placed on the big book.

    I keep going though because smart meetings are a little to mystic and new agey for me. I don't know how to meditate or live in the moment. I don't wanna start drinking lattes and doing yoga. I can't change my self talk to the therapy way. Apparently I can't quit drinking either, lol. I still do it every damn day, (except yesterday, woo hoo).

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  43. Pretty much sums AA up in my view although not an alcoholic personally my partner was. He had sadly turned into an outwardly unloving bore who would rather hang about hearing the same anecdotes, stories and quips than spend time with me and the time he does I get chapter and bloody verse or quoted at or the odd sermon.

    His idea of fun these days is wandering around supermarkets (Just shoot me please we've been down this aisle four F**king times already). To cut a long story short; I moved out but not broke up. I love him and he knows it but he has become very manipulative to the point to try and save our relationship I had to get out as being quoted at was destroying what remained.

    I've been to open meetings and its Deja vu. I went to Al Anon too but I found this was also soul destroying as they are just as bad and like the walking wounded after the destruction an alcoholic tsunami they are left hugging their own knees rocking back and forth with ‘Why me’. Or another moan about what they did/didn’t do to me this is like watching a fly slowly twitch it's last after failing to find the open window mere inches away).

    I hope he leaves AA. True, he's got some genuinely nice friends there (but are they)? He gets badgering text messages and calls. I have a feeling he is being trawled by 13th steppers because despite being a private person he's told them, their cat, dog, aunt, sister and even his bosses (unfortunately he didn't hang up his phone I heard him discussing me like a big joke so I know exactly what he has said may as well served my soul up on a platter with other cuts of cold meats and devilled
    eggs) and I hate to say it but after six and a half years (six of those engaged) I feel like telling him to sod off.

    I love him but he seems to have gained the arrogance that he can get a girl (most likely one of the boring vultures who hunt down fresh or wounded meat) So I am made to feel like an expendable commodity. I wish he could see what it has done to him yes it helped him in a way to stop drinking but really he's turned into a sweetie munching aisle curb crawler that thinks it's funny when he pretends to lust after pretty girls in short skirts.

    He also quotes the AA handbook and things from his sponsor like those mole people who go to church and quote chapter and verse if you don't think in the same way...No wait I forgot I'm a them and cannot belong to the special club of us. So to you who have escaped I raise a glass be it milk, a cup of joe or a juice or something brewed like tea and say thank goodness you survived and found your way out of those dull damp back rooms and didn't go back.

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  44. This blog speaks to my experience with AA over the past eight months. Found out the hard way that anonymous it was not. I have returned to private therapy and am working through the Smart Recovery tools.

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  45. oh fuck AA. Seriously it is brainwashing garbage. You can choose to be sober without it. Just get some protein in your diet and get a therapist to work out why you drink.

    I did 12 steps on and off for years. They do not work. Period.

    Smart Recovery offers tools.
    Lifering revolves around normal people.

    but AA is a cult.

    If you want to go or have to go --- GO--- but watch out for the dudes if you are a lady and don't get addicted to meetings or the freaking donuts and coffeee.

    I used to go to a meeting for the cookies. My boyfriend called it the cookie meeting.

    I miss AA sometimes. The stories and the fake connection. but now it is time for me to live my real life. with real people. some drink and some don't!

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  46. What really needs to be discussed is AA's war on Naltrexone/Vivitrol. Despite their effectiveness, AA really lobbies against doctors proscribing them. It is easier to get Oxycodone. AA has no interest in curing or making anyone better. 12 step programs are nothing more than a government sanctioned religious revival.

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  47. I'm a younger guy(33)I've been going to AA for a month and a week now. It's a large meeting about 40 people. I've noticed 80% of the group is an older crowd 50s and up also noticed the cliques, gossip and club house mentality.was welcomed fairly warmly at first. But slowly began to notice some annoyance that I wasn't sharing. It's just not my personality I was still seeing where I fit in in this group but would listen attentively as people spoke. Then tonight a guy behind me was talking to his buddy about fighting someone because he was not sharing and mumbling stuff to him about somebody not sharing and how he was going to kick his ass. A man then stood up and left the meeting and didn't come back I'm not sure if he was talking about me or him. He was basically threating physical violence for not conforming to their indoctrination. Anyway I'm going back tomorrow sitting right next to the guy to see if he has anything to say to my face then I'm done with AA. It's to dated and there are lots of other options these days I would say AA has intreached it's self in our society but I don't see it as an option for younger generations.

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  48. I'm thirty and I attended AA in Los Angeles for three or four years. I found it to be very cold and isolating. It was very Hollywood. The larger meetings were always very clickish. In one of my earlier meetings I met an Indian woman. Being a middle eastern guy it was nice to connect with a woman outside of the usual white crowd of AA. She was smart and very sucessful. We seemed to connect. White guys from other meetings took an interest in her, because she was tall, dark skinned, and spoke with an english accent. She had a big nose and ugly feet, but that didn't bother me. All the racist, superficial white women in AA who only took interest in the pretty white boys and then all these white boys wanted to chase after the one indian girl in the room. It ruined my relationship with her and any chance we had of dating. Her sponsor convinced her us socializing was a bad idea and then other woman tried introducing her to their male friends.
    It still pains me to think about what could have been.
    Then I had a sponsor that was a music engineer thst used me for rides and favors. It turned out he was more interested in making contacts from the program to help his music career than helping me with my program.
    I tried different meetings with different people and it only continued to go down hill from there. More failed relationships. More disapointments. I was abused, used, and stabbed in the back.
    Any of it hardly seemed worth it. I found myself surrounded by cynical self concious fake people who spent alot of time gossiping about me and each other by their backs to feel better about themselves. And everyone always pretended to be so happy and it always came across as eerie and forced.
    I spent an hour writing an email witj a heart felt apology that was very sincere and personal to my old indian lady friend only to be ignored.
    I'm sure she doesn't acknowledge my existence or even care.
    I think it best to move on and forget about her and AA all together.

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  49. When I first walked into an AA meeting I thought - fantastic! - a whole room full of people who don't hate me because I'm a drunk (in the rest of my life I am hated and punished for being a drunk), - so far, so good. I sit down and a guy casually drops a card in my lap that says "let go and let god" - what the hell am I supposed to do with that! Give it back to him? It was kind of good to be amongst people who didn't hate me for a while and I really needed that, but I couldn't really buy into all the 'church of AA' stuff. The pressure to 'do the steps' was too much. Especially step 9 - apologize to everyone for everything you've ever done? Everyone has already taken way more revenge out on me for anything I've ever done to them and they're still doing it. No-one gets my apologies except for my children. So, no more AA for me, except for maybe a quick chat and a cup of tea.

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    1. I defiantely get where your coming from. I think the part about making amends to people, especially your enemies is total b**ls*t. You can forgive someone without even making contact with the person. I had people from AA who have been in it for years who did me wrong. We come to AA for relief and then other people from the program can and will attach themselves to us to fabricate more drama. You think I'm going to make amends to those people? Heck no. They best stay the hell away from me so I can focus on dealing with my own sh*t.

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  50. I done been sent to AA by the courts and went to meetings not feeling like drinking and after hearing "War Stories " about drinking I left feeling like I want to drink bad! It had a reverse effect on me. Good place to "Pick up Chicks" that's about it 1% long term recovery rate at the clubs I went to. Some people at the AA CLUB WITH LONG-TERM SOBRIETY sleep on peoples couches, no job, no car , divorced over and over , more problems in sobriety than ever had when drinking, sober or drunk a Loser is still a Loser! No 12 Steps for that! They have nothing I want. AA preamble "If you want what we have , you are ready to take certain steps".

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  51. AA has become somewhat of a hipster movement. A scene if you will. At least here in LA. I sit in on meetings from time to time as an observer, or to socialize. Its more of a social club than anything. The men are desperate. The women are insecure and petty. Its no so bad. As long as you know what your getting yourself into. You have to know how the game is played. Most of the people in the rooms are lying anyways.

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  52. I did AA for many years here in Los Angeles. You meet a lot of interesting characters. The truth is most of the people you meet in these 12 step groups are trashy people who never truly recover, most of them red necks. They gossip and talk sh*t about you behind you're back, and form clicks. Their some of the worst people. They treat sobriety like a front. Its mostly for show and tell. They want to get as many people to join in the cult as possible.

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  53. My advice, don't let AA people rub off on you. Never use the "F" word, "FRIEND" in AA. In AA you have no friends, just acquaintances and pretenders. They'll talk about you behind you're back, and can on you at anytime. If you your not good looking enough, or don't have something they want that is.

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  54. I understand how addicts can need AA as a solution, but if your not truly an addict than AA can be socially isolating. I like to go out and interact with people. When you surround yourself with nothing, but program people it tends to become a cult.

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  55. I just got back from a lame meeting. Most of the people spouting off at the mouth we're trying to lecture and talk at you which to me is a real turn off. I just like to hear peoples stories and interpret the hidden message or meaning that way.
    Cause I went to a meeting last night where a bunch of young speakers spoke a bunch of non sense that didn't articulate to much, but then came the main speaker who spoke phenomenally that I could really resonate with.
    At the meeting I went to today I saw a couple douchebags I can't stand who stabbed me in the back at one point. One of them had the audacity to piggyback off the burning desire share.
    Talking about himself. Me. Me. I. I. I. LOL. Its like get over yourself.
    After going to meetings for years you really have to filter out those types of people and filter out the bulsh*t.
    There really is a lot of non sense in AA. You just have to weed through it.

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  56. I'm trying to give AA another go, but the meetings are so depressing. Today an older lady dressed like a slut in a tight little dress came to take a cake. She decided to sit and talk to the awkward gay guy with his big hairy legs crossed then sit next to me a straight normal looking guy. She refused to even say hello or acknowledge me.
    So when the meeting was over I just got up and left. The meetings have become really watered down. The quality of speakers has declined and so has the people sitting in on meetings. AA is a dying breed.

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  57. I'm a vet and I did the whole AA thing. The thing is these assholes from AA where never around during my struggles. When someone close to me died or I was feeling suicidal these AA fucks never picked up the phone, answered a text, or came around. Yet when one of these jerk offs up and ODs. You'll hear them bragg about how they knew the person and how it's got their panties in a bunch.
    Fucking posers. They don't give two shits about me or each other. Its a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours type of deal.
    AA is total bulshit. I've lived it for 6 something odd years. And I'm living proof. Let these addict fuckers run themselves off a cliff.
    Good riddance.

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  59. I have almost three years clean and sober and found my sobriety in AA at 23 years old. I became a book thumper, ate that shit up, agreed with every fuckin line in the big book. At meetings I was most amazed by the people who seemed to be able to recite the big book and find eloquent ways to connect it all back to experiences and feelings. Looking back I am sickened by how committed I was to AA and how blind I was to other points of view, all the while thinking I was so open minded and smart and shit. Fuck me for that. I've been on both sides of the fence now and it's crazy to look back on myself like that, especially when I encounter past aa friends who look at me now like my past self would have looked at my present self... like I know what is best for someone else, feel sorry for them, and hope they come around to the "truth" and open their minds too one day. What bull shit. Fuck anyone who can be so judgemental and diagnose some other fucking person. AA is not for everyone, all the time. Around 2 years my life got really busy with school and work and I work harder than most people I know because I'm still determined to put the pieces of my life together while I am still young. I'm fuckin lucky that i feel like I still have that chance. For anyone to make me feel guilty, or a program to have instilled in me this belief that somehow I am fucking up or on my way to a relapse because I prioritize working hard instead of driving around picking up newcomers devoting my time to other alcoholics who don't give a fuck about me either, when I don't even have enough time to take care of myself? Fuck that. Fuck aa for making me live in fear of not being on top of my program so many times. The stress of that was greater than any stress I have yet to experience in sobriety. Once I finally realized that the guilt and fear of not being involved in aa was what would start to cause my anxiety every few months, as my involvement always seems to ebb and flow, and decided to stop beating myself up for not conforming to something previously had so fiercely subscribed to, I feel so much better. I can see clear now my journey through sobriety. I am no sober because of aa. It helped in the beginning but I don't need it right now. Maybe that will change one day but for now I am good and I am not too insane like they want to me to believe to eat able to determine when I am on my way out or not. I know what I'm doing and I still check in with myself, my family, etc when stress comes up in my life. No one can tell anyone else what is right for them.

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  60. The last AA meeting I went to was in September of 2014...I've been sober since December 2008. I got so sick of the cliques, gossiping, self righteous people constantly shooting off slogans. My sponsor told me to talk to people, put myself out there because I'm so introverted - which he thought was BS because he told me introverts are basically hermits and hermits don't do well in AA...once I complained to my first sponsor about a negative incident that had happened to me and he gave me some harsh feed back which I didn't appreciate and I told him so. "Well, I don't give a F&&K about how you FEEL; my job is the help you stay sober and to look at the role you play in the incidents that happen in your sober life.". WHAT??? I could barely get his attention sometimes because he was too busy checking out young things in the coffee house where we would meet to go through the steps. Then he decided that his issue wasn't alcohol, but cocaine. So he went back to drinking...ok. My next sponsor was a little better, I thought, but he was cliquish and an attention whore - I realized this when we would do fellowship with other people from our LGBT group. They exhausted me. And now? He's transitioning - something totally out of the blue. And I'm atheist, so, the God thing doesn't work for me. I was on drugs that kept me from drinking. When I stopped taking them, the doctors told me I could go to AA. Well, I did, and I'm not sorry I did, but I don't really ever want to sit in a meeting with those nuts ever again. I'm happy to be a nut all by myself, thanks.

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